Which is what he tried to show but many wignats attacked him and called him a jew for showing that some ashkenazi jews grouped within southern european parameters but Cypriots didn't.
I shouldn't say "genetically middle eastern". They're genetically more European than any Middle Easterners outside of Anatolia, but they're less European than anyone on the European continent or any other islands off of Europe
It has always confused me why Malta has semitic and not north african DNA (IIRC), I wonder if the arab elites there were more unmixed. Afterall, theres this interesting genealogy site linked to me by a sicilian mutual online: https://maltagenealogy.com/arabsicilymalta/ . It kinda blew my mind since I always thought it was the elites who left and the commoners who stayed during the norman conquest, but it turns out they remained
Yeah but i mean malta's "eastern" heritage is much more elevated, compared to say sicily, so i wonder if its much more recent considering the fact there was zero population continuity on the island and that they brought most of the settlers from sicily
This will help my historical fantasy a lot with my mental understanding of the Corded Ware, Catacomb, Sintashta, and Andronovo (among others)
Very interesting, and I'm fascinated by the religious conjecture. Please, expand on this if you can sometime. The split between the Vedic and Avestan in very intriguing to me.
Its very strange, it seems that it was allowed but it wasnt some sort of widespread practice, I guess it's similar to the modern day stereotype of middle easterners engaging in polygamy despite it being an incredibly rare phenomenon either way.
And yet it flies over the Christians’ heads that their beloved hero Issac was God’s planned incest baby. It was just something that everyone kinda sorta know about but not really focusing on. A sort of pre-K training for the lifetime of Not Noticing.
The latest evidence definitely points to Indo-Iranian being Corded Ware, with it either being the most basal of Corded Ware languages, or being sister to Balto-Slavic. But you do mention that Balto-Slavs and Germanic have the same R1a clade in common. I usually see Germanic as being either closer to Italo-Celtic, or an intermediate family between I-C and B-S, but I believe Peter Nimitz wrote a paper on Germanic where he used the same evidence of the R1a Haplogroup to argue that Germanic was aligned closer to Balto-Slavic & Indo-Iranic, or at least that the Germanic urheimat originated far closer to where their proto languages were surely spoken.
No he’s saying that the spread of the cline is identifiably from a movement south to north. So its irrelevant to bring up a “cline”.
Furthermore Laziridis paper makes an exception for Anatolian, so Heggarty simply states its silly to then ignore the flaws of the Steppe theory for I-Ir as well, and imply that only one “exception” could occur.
Its also silly to then imply this language is pre-PIE when it already split prior for Anatolian, its simply PIE and from here it branched out.
The cline is not identifiably a movement from south to north. There is zero evidence that there was once upon a time a pristine EHG population in southern Russia and more specifically the piedmont. The only place where it can be called south-north is near the Samara bend, but this could easily be explained by the already formed Steppe eneolithic types back-migrating. Lazaridis makes an exception for Anatolian because Anatolian is the most basal IE language by far and it shows not only in linguistic drift but in shared technological terms. This is not the case for PII
Heggarty’s paper implies diversification for PI-Ir 5000BP which is after the development of wheels. What technology besides that are you implying?
Even among Heggarty’s paper Antolian is still older than I-Ir. Anatolian is the first branch to split.
Did CHG not increase from a South to north impression later? I’m not saying EHG was pristine.
“Third, it was discovered that the Yamnaya had not only CHG-related, but also Anatolian Neolithic ancestry, absent in the early known steppe inhabitants, and derived from European farmer neighbors west of the steppe. This ancestry was later shown to be of rather Anatolian-Levantine-Mesopotamian origin, and to be mediated not from Europe but from the Caucasus neighbors south of the steppe. Such ancestry must have been added following the expansion of Neolithic farmers into the Caucasus, introduced thence into the steppe as a later exogenous element, distinct from the earlier CHG-related one. Finally, it was recognized that European steppe populations were formed not only by northern-southern admixture, but included, in at least some Eneolithic and Bronze Age people of the North Caucasus, contributions related to Siberians from further east.5 What was the extent of the spread of this eastern ancestry and did the Yamnaya themselves possess it” -Laziridis et al
He clearly lays out the copper age CHG was distinct from earlier CHG.
The Southern Arc finding of Anatolian-Levantine component in Yamnaya being unique to Yamnaya was overturned in the 2025 study. This ancestry wasn’t really Iranian-influenced either, it was moreso a combination of Anatolian and CHG ancestry (ex: Aknashen Armenia, Maykop) and now we have samples with this ancestry on the Piedmont (Nalchik) as early as our oldest Steppe samples, so we still don’t know who got there first.
Soma wasn’t drunk by “warriors”, it was offered to everyone participating in the ritual and then offered into the fire.
Given it is given as a gift to Indra to make it rain, I’m assuming it was sugarcane juice. It wouldn’t make sense to give a stimulant offering. Most Vedic offerings are flowers, rice cakes, water, milk/honey/butter.
The people who composed the Rig Veda were likely mostly of Aryan stock. The later 3 probably less than the initial invaders but more than modern populations of the subcontinent. The Old Avestans texts (mainly the Gathas but a few others) were probably composed by people genetically very similar to Bronze Age Northern Europe, while the Younger Avestan texts were composed durian or after Yaz II which was half BMAC and half Andronovo (but probably still pretty phenotypically European)
Christian Weston Chandler-derived Srubnaya Culture.
Which is what he tried to show but many wignats attacked him and called him a jew for showing that some ashkenazi jews grouped within southern european parameters but Cypriots didn't.
Did you see the recent shitstorm over survive the jive's tweet about what is and isn't a part of europe? Cypriots were not happy
No, but for the record Cypriots are genetically Middle Eastern and they’re frankly barely even descended from Greeks at all.
I shouldn't say "genetically middle eastern". They're genetically more European than any Middle Easterners outside of Anatolia, but they're less European than anyone on the European continent or any other islands off of Europe
>but they're less European than anyone on the European continent or any other islands off of Europe
What about Malta?
Technically Malta is on the African tectonic plate
It has always confused me why Malta has semitic and not north african DNA (IIRC), I wonder if the arab elites there were more unmixed. Afterall, theres this interesting genealogy site linked to me by a sicilian mutual online: https://maltagenealogy.com/arabsicilymalta/ . It kinda blew my mind since I always thought it was the elites who left and the commoners who stayed during the norman conquest, but it turns out they remained
They have only very minor levantine ancestry
Yeah but i mean malta's "eastern" heritage is much more elevated, compared to say sicily, so i wonder if its much more recent considering the fact there was zero population continuity on the island and that they brought most of the settlers from sicily
Didn't realize I messed up my other comment, it should've been in response to your first reply :/
This will help my historical fantasy a lot with my mental understanding of the Corded Ware, Catacomb, Sintashta, and Andronovo (among others)
Very interesting, and I'm fascinated by the religious conjecture. Please, expand on this if you can sometime. The split between the Vedic and Avestan in very intriguing to me.
> inbred barbarians
fairly certain the zoroastrians encouraged sibling marriages
They did, but it was a later addition to the religion
Its very strange, it seems that it was allowed but it wasnt some sort of widespread practice, I guess it's similar to the modern day stereotype of middle easterners engaging in polygamy despite it being an incredibly rare phenomenon either way.
https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/incest-and-inbreeding ; this site has a lot of interesting material on iranian history
It was something the royal families and magi were known for. And yes, Iranica is a goated site
And yet it flies over the Christians’ heads that their beloved hero Issac was God’s planned incest baby. It was just something that everyone kinda sorta know about but not really focusing on. A sort of pre-K training for the lifetime of Not Noticing.
The latest evidence definitely points to Indo-Iranian being Corded Ware, with it either being the most basal of Corded Ware languages, or being sister to Balto-Slavic. But you do mention that Balto-Slavs and Germanic have the same R1a clade in common. I usually see Germanic as being either closer to Italo-Celtic, or an intermediate family between I-C and B-S, but I believe Peter Nimitz wrote a paper on Germanic where he used the same evidence of the R1a Haplogroup to argue that Germanic was aligned closer to Balto-Slavic & Indo-Iranic, or at least that the Germanic urheimat originated far closer to where their proto languages were surely spoken.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-44430-5
An interesting article by Chinese researchers I believe
Also a response by Heggarty to Laziridis
https://paulheggarty.info/blog/
Page is 404ing, and I’ve already read Heggarty’s response to Lazaridis. All it demonstrates is that Heggarty doesn’t know what a cline is
Paper is called “Inferring language dispersal patterns with velocity field estimation”
By Sizhe Yang et al.
Nothing about this study actually demonstrates an Anatolian homeland at all
No he’s saying that the spread of the cline is identifiably from a movement south to north. So its irrelevant to bring up a “cline”.
Furthermore Laziridis paper makes an exception for Anatolian, so Heggarty simply states its silly to then ignore the flaws of the Steppe theory for I-Ir as well, and imply that only one “exception” could occur.
Its also silly to then imply this language is pre-PIE when it already split prior for Anatolian, its simply PIE and from here it branched out.
The cline is not identifiably a movement from south to north. There is zero evidence that there was once upon a time a pristine EHG population in southern Russia and more specifically the piedmont. The only place where it can be called south-north is near the Samara bend, but this could easily be explained by the already formed Steppe eneolithic types back-migrating. Lazaridis makes an exception for Anatolian because Anatolian is the most basal IE language by far and it shows not only in linguistic drift but in shared technological terms. This is not the case for PII
Heggarty’s paper implies diversification for PI-Ir 5000BP which is after the development of wheels. What technology besides that are you implying?
Even among Heggarty’s paper Antolian is still older than I-Ir. Anatolian is the first branch to split.
Did CHG not increase from a South to north impression later? I’m not saying EHG was pristine.
“Third, it was discovered that the Yamnaya had not only CHG-related, but also Anatolian Neolithic ancestry, absent in the early known steppe inhabitants, and derived from European farmer neighbors west of the steppe. This ancestry was later shown to be of rather Anatolian-Levantine-Mesopotamian origin, and to be mediated not from Europe but from the Caucasus neighbors south of the steppe. Such ancestry must have been added following the expansion of Neolithic farmers into the Caucasus, introduced thence into the steppe as a later exogenous element, distinct from the earlier CHG-related one. Finally, it was recognized that European steppe populations were formed not only by northern-southern admixture, but included, in at least some Eneolithic and Bronze Age people of the North Caucasus, contributions related to Siberians from further east.5 What was the extent of the spread of this eastern ancestry and did the Yamnaya themselves possess it” -Laziridis et al
He clearly lays out the copper age CHG was distinct from earlier CHG.
The Southern Arc finding of Anatolian-Levantine component in Yamnaya being unique to Yamnaya was overturned in the 2025 study. This ancestry wasn’t really Iranian-influenced either, it was moreso a combination of Anatolian and CHG ancestry (ex: Aknashen Armenia, Maykop) and now we have samples with this ancestry on the Piedmont (Nalchik) as early as our oldest Steppe samples, so we still don’t know who got there first.
Soma wasn’t drunk by “warriors”, it was offered to everyone participating in the ritual and then offered into the fire.
Given it is given as a gift to Indra to make it rain, I’m assuming it was sugarcane juice. It wouldn’t make sense to give a stimulant offering. Most Vedic offerings are flowers, rice cakes, water, milk/honey/butter.
Few are meat or animal offerings.
Thanks for discussing it without going full wignat and condescending etc
Punjab and Iran still get along well.
https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2017/09/25/the-dominion-of-the-gods-rich-pastures-and-the-dispossessed-cultivators-of-the-land-in-the-gathas-of-zarathustra/
https://nitter.poast.org/Parikramah/status/1237606728260186114#m
Punjab traditionally raids Iran for cattle & women.
--
Could you also do a post on the DasRajna and your analysis of it?
So iz the Iranians Aryans and da Indians POCs?
The people who composed the Rig Veda were likely mostly of Aryan stock. The later 3 probably less than the initial invaders but more than modern populations of the subcontinent. The Old Avestans texts (mainly the Gathas but a few others) were probably composed by people genetically very similar to Bronze Age Northern Europe, while the Younger Avestan texts were composed durian or after Yaz II which was half BMAC and half Andronovo (but probably still pretty phenotypically European)
BMAC is a mix between Neolithic (pre-Aryan) Iran and Neolithic Anatolia (for comparison, early European farmers were 50-100% Neolithic Anarolian)