I largely agree, as we have spoken about before, but I do use it sometimes in our circles because it is colloquially understood. There are also large amounts of WN folks who don't understand any of this archaeo-genetic timeline that you are talking about, and I don't always have the interest or expertise to explain it to them. In these instances, using Aryan gets the point across.
Thank you. Very good. It is important to have this conversation. However, I see no reason why We can't or shouldn't claim/reclaim this descriptor both as a neoethnonym and as an aspirational statement. To BE aryan is TO BE noble of character and action.
What exact verses from the Ettutokai treat “arya” as an enemy?
Most sangam literature is Hindu mentioning brahmins and vedic devas.
Tamils themselves called themselves Arya such as the Arya Chakravati dynasty (Tamil) - and that was against Sinhala speaking Indo-Aryans.
The few instances from the ettutokai i can find that use ariya use it as noble. Though maybe the text I’m referencing is not the entire corpus.
Verses 223-224:
O mother, with your guiding hand, you lead us;
through the trials of youth, you stretch forth your care.
When the waves of misfortune separate us from others,
your loving hands come swiftly to support us;
even when the world tests us, your protection remains.
O mother, with your guiding hand, you lift us up;
you shield us as the mountains stand firm,
and when the flowing waters challenge us in play,
you offer the soft earth beneath our feet.
You, the noble one whose care is gentle and wise,
are like the medicine that cures every pain.
Verses 284-285:
The noble man’s sharp, piercing words
are like the songs of a red parrot,
flying over the high hills where the hill tribes dwell.
He observes carefully, with a steady gaze,
and sees clearly the faults and separations
that ordinary people fail to notice.
The woman with long, flowing hair,
yet small in stature, with frail frame,
whose delicate movements resemble a parrot’s flutter,
her separations and quarrels among those she loves
become clear to the noble observer.
The noble one perceives what others overlook;
he sees the hidden conflicts and the subtle flaws
in the hearts and actions of men and women alike.
359-360:
The subtle meaning of words springs forth like a machine,
dividing the great measure of time into precise parts.
Sweet are the words of the noble mouth,
they enter the heart like fine ornaments,
but who can grasp the full measure of such delicate speech?
The tongue, fiery and sharp, stretches out,
yet the words of the noble mouth are gentle and subtle.
At that time, they stir the feelings of ordinary hearts,
while the harsh deeds of the cruel leave the noble unmoved;
the heart of the great one is not shaken by them.
….
Tbh I think to Iranians as well it meant noble since ordinary people were referred to as daha. Though both mutual in a way for them.
The ethnonym for Indians was Bharata. It was never solely “Arya”. Though they also did somewhat become mutual terms - the thing is Tamils and other South Indians are identified with being Bharati, and in pretty old scriptures at that.
How? The nazis widely believed that Iran was the homeland of the Aryans, but the evidence didn't yet exist showing that these Aryans had previously migrated to Iran from Europe.
Some Nazis believed the Aryans came from Asia, but even at this time the popular consensus was that they came from the Northern European Plain (see: this substack’s namesake)
I knew the popular concensus believed otherwise, but I thought Nazi archeologists firmly believed in the Iranian origin. I believe im remembering a Survive the jive video where he says this, was it not so?
They were "obsessed" with being nordic, deeming it the unmixed ideal of the germanic peoples. Aryan was their chosen pan european label to distinguish europeans as a race from racially foreign and mixed populations, most prominently being of course jews.
Words change meaning so using "Aryan" as a chud slang term for white people and good things is good (Aryan) o algo
What about the reconstruction "heryos"?
I largely agree, as we have spoken about before, but I do use it sometimes in our circles because it is colloquially understood. There are also large amounts of WN folks who don't understand any of this archaeo-genetic timeline that you are talking about, and I don't always have the interest or expertise to explain it to them. In these instances, using Aryan gets the point across.
Heryos might be an improper reconstruction, but if it is real then it likely does not refer to the broader ethnic group initially.
I think the idea of ethnicity and religion as separate categories is monotheist.
Thank you. Very good. It is important to have this conversation. However, I see no reason why We can't or shouldn't claim/reclaim this descriptor both as a neoethnonym and as an aspirational statement. To BE aryan is TO BE noble of character and action.
I think the turks are probably the most genetically heterogenous group in history, even by lineage alone they have like a billion y-dna haplogroups
You are correct. The word "Aryan" is more appropriate for ancient Iranians.
What exact verses from the Ettutokai treat “arya” as an enemy?
Most sangam literature is Hindu mentioning brahmins and vedic devas.
Tamils themselves called themselves Arya such as the Arya Chakravati dynasty (Tamil) - and that was against Sinhala speaking Indo-Aryans.
The few instances from the ettutokai i can find that use ariya use it as noble. Though maybe the text I’m referencing is not the entire corpus.
Verses 223-224:
O mother, with your guiding hand, you lead us;
through the trials of youth, you stretch forth your care.
When the waves of misfortune separate us from others,
your loving hands come swiftly to support us;
even when the world tests us, your protection remains.
O mother, with your guiding hand, you lift us up;
you shield us as the mountains stand firm,
and when the flowing waters challenge us in play,
you offer the soft earth beneath our feet.
You, the noble one whose care is gentle and wise,
are like the medicine that cures every pain.
Verses 284-285:
The noble man’s sharp, piercing words
are like the songs of a red parrot,
flying over the high hills where the hill tribes dwell.
He observes carefully, with a steady gaze,
and sees clearly the faults and separations
that ordinary people fail to notice.
The woman with long, flowing hair,
yet small in stature, with frail frame,
whose delicate movements resemble a parrot’s flutter,
her separations and quarrels among those she loves
become clear to the noble observer.
The noble one perceives what others overlook;
he sees the hidden conflicts and the subtle flaws
in the hearts and actions of men and women alike.
359-360:
The subtle meaning of words springs forth like a machine,
dividing the great measure of time into precise parts.
Sweet are the words of the noble mouth,
they enter the heart like fine ornaments,
but who can grasp the full measure of such delicate speech?
The tongue, fiery and sharp, stretches out,
yet the words of the noble mouth are gentle and subtle.
At that time, they stir the feelings of ordinary hearts,
while the harsh deeds of the cruel leave the noble unmoved;
the heart of the great one is not shaken by them.
….
Tbh I think to Iranians as well it meant noble since ordinary people were referred to as daha. Though both mutual in a way for them.
The ethnonym for Indians was Bharata. It was never solely “Arya”. Though they also did somewhat become mutual terms - the thing is Tamils and other South Indians are identified with being Bharati, and in pretty old scriptures at that.
This term demonstrates that it’s users were morons who had no idea of anything 😬
How? The nazis widely believed that Iran was the homeland of the Aryans, but the evidence didn't yet exist showing that these Aryans had previously migrated to Iran from Europe.
Some Nazis believed the Aryans came from Asia, but even at this time the popular consensus was that they came from the Northern European Plain (see: this substack’s namesake)
I knew the popular concensus believed otherwise, but I thought Nazi archeologists firmly believed in the Iranian origin. I believe im remembering a Survive the jive video where he says this, was it not so?
All that talk Aryans is wierd coming from a people obsessed with being German!
They were "obsessed" with being nordic, deeming it the unmixed ideal of the germanic peoples. Aryan was their chosen pan european label to distinguish europeans as a race from racially foreign and mixed populations, most prominently being of course jews.
so sick...
Aryan is a silly term which we should never have adopted.
I use the term Indo-Germanic in German which is the correct term but still makes PC retards uncomfortable.
Correct stock + religion is the proper use Imo. Of Aryan faith & lineage. Excludes those with shaved heads, the circumcised, and killers of the cow.
You are Indian
I'm Al-Zutt, and you are not of our faith or kin. I'll leave it at that, rather than flame.
Brown
Circumcised.
Nigga you're literally african
No, I just own a few.