3rd option is, unfortunately, already the most common: White Buddhism. Vague spiritualist beliefs, obsession with the minimization of suffering, the same old Christian moral teachings without any commitment to a god.
I think it's very likely that any potential superseder to Christianity will still adopt a lot of its trappings no matter its design; Christianity basically did the same during the development of Nicene orthodoxy itself, meanwhile express paganophilia can be seen with Renaissance stuff and Arthurian legend (these were much later, but you can still probably find other earlier examples), and Christendom (especially early on) had pretty strong reason to avoid doing this. Pagans (afaik) don't necessarily have as strong of an intrinsic reason for diverging, especially since from it sprung a lot of Western culture.
I have turned to Asatru, even though I personally have more Gaelic interests and beliefs. The AFA has multiple hofs in the US. Asatru is a growing religion in certain parts of the West.
I'm of the opinion that we just have to increase folkish ideas in the minds of White people, and once folkism is widespread then we will see a return to natural thought processes. I'm not saying we reconstruct ancient religions - I'm saying we continue those traditions which we still have, and then use those to reignite the racial spirit, so that we can build new systems using what has historically worked for us.
We were ancestor worshipers and panentheist/polytheist for tens of thousands of years. Some Europeans (Lithuanians and some Slavs) weren't even converted until the 14-1600's. It's not like we have totally lost everything. Our ancestors haven't disappeared.
Imperium Press has a great article on folkism right now. Runestone.org and the AFA can provide what people are wanting - pious, community minded, straight laced, family focused, and masculine.
While vague "strains" have been had within Christendom these past few centuries, what we've seen unfold in the past few decades is hardly comparable to anything ever seen before. It's as much of a hasty extrapolation as the idea of Whites becoming extinct by the end of the century or something. If Whites can make a comeback, I think Christianity will too, but the one thing that could subvert that expectation is if our American Caesar/Augustus/Uncle H. ends up being a pagan who paves the way for their takeover (kinda like Constantine)
Many people made a mistake of seeing Christianity as either divine or Jewish conspiracy because it seems like a perfect system in some way. In actuality, the religious competition was very intense in the first century. With such a crowded scene, people needed to specialize in something and many became preachers, philosophers, and prophets.
As they seeks to gain a slight advantage, there would be many combinations and mixtures of different stuff. Competition accelerate the perfection of a product, whether it be an ideology or a car. Just as a car began as a basic frame with many innovators entering the market with their slight improvements. In time the best elements would be combined and streamlined to be more appealing.
Christianity’s history suggested a similar process as many churches were widely different with only the idea of Christ and salvation being common to all. But the earlier texts implied that Christ began as a spirit or angel who faked death. Some Church Fathers even wrote that Christ died an old man of fifty in Titus’ reign. Some second century bishops outright denied resurrection. Only after the Marcon debate, did Christ gradually became flesh and blood and Old Testament incorporated. He became a historical figure generations later.
In the same way, competition will accelerate the perfection of Paganism as various leaders combined or drop some elements. It most likely will be a bleed of historical pagan rituals, especially ancestors, sacred fire, and nature worship, futurist view of creative strife, Christian elements such as alternative polis (the key to Christian’ success as against the private club of mystery religion), a kind of the Book of Common Prayer and preaching to help forming the common mindset of the group so as to strengthen their unity and mores, the sense of being an elect to inspire their unbreakable spirit, home church-type since the first cults were really a family affair before it grew into a tribe, Catholic style, camp meetings that are not too different from the Dionysian mystery which would provide a large pow-wow before settling on some permanent location, and a crusader spirit that defends the sacred fire and people. Gym will be as important as ritual because the idea that our bodies are sacred carriers of ancestral blood that must be preserved and propagated into the next generation. So the body must be strong and beautiful. Wealth creation and high tech knowledge will be an important part of faith as it would increase the collective strength. Stories and songs are more important than treatises as it must focus on fostering the popular unity and culture.
1. Christianity is declining, but a large portion of this is the “abandonment of the middle”. Meaning, most Protestant denoms are in free fall and their congregation is going elsewhere. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and some “hardline” high church prots are collecting most, but not all, of these crumbs. I go to an American Orthodox Church, it and many others are experiencing nuclear explosions of new converts. Its an entirely convert church, far more zealous than modern American Protestantism. My church specifically is an abandoned baptist country chapel that’s been converted. Designed to “seat” 100ish, it now “stands” 300+ weekly (Orthos stand for the Liturgy). Many, many other Ortho parishes are experiencing similar growth, especially post Covid. We will see if this is a sustained, national trend but I’ve seen Ortho priests discuss on YouTube that anecdotally the OCA is basically past capacity YoY.
Still, this might mean 2% of the American population becomes Orthodox at best. Not very important, especially considering it’s ethnic/migrant aftertaste in the US. Either way, its over for Protestants. By about 2200, Protestantism will be extinct. America will join probably join today’s England as a majority catholic country.
2. Church attendance has always been low, even in medieval Europe. It’s counterintuitive, but church attendance / weekly participation isn’t the best way to gauge whether someone is a nominal or “true” Christian. Especially in historical Protestant nations (Scandinavia), the practicing rate has hovered around 5%. There’s a theory that the 30 years war was really the first time the lower classes ever cared about what made them a Catholic instead of a prot and Vice versa
I'm pretty sure Catholic church attendance has been falling faster than Protestantism in the U.S., albeit Protestantism is taking in a lot of brown mexican ex-catholic evangelicals to replace a potentially freefalling white population. In Europe, however, Protestantism really is on its last legs. Protestant "churches" like those in Scandinavia and England are a total joke and nobody even regularly attends them.
>Church attendance has always been low, even in medieval Europe. It’s counterintuitive, but church attendance / weekly participation isn’t the best way to gauge whether someone is a nominal or “true” Christian. Especially in historical Protestant nations (Scandinavia), the practicing rate has hovered around 5%. There’s a theory that the 30 years war was really the first time the lower classes ever cared about what made them a Catholic instead of a prot and Vice versa
I’m paraphrasing from several books by Dr Rodney Stark, where he directly discusses the decline in the Christian population in Europe / the West. Drops lots of figures and quotes about how, say, an English peasant in the 1200s rarely attended mass and often slept in the pews, showed up drunk, left early, etc. I’ll see if I can find the specific book and chapter Bc he sort of destroys the notion of the “pious Christian medieval population”.
Catholicism either falls slower than Protestantism or makes small YoY gains depending on the year, Covid could also just be an outlier.
Orthodox and catholic converts aren’t Christian so we can rule those out of any statistics. Mexicans who watch king Baldwin edits on tiktok are not Christian.
When Baldwin is an icon of Christian youth (mostly because of some hollywood movie) and Godfrey of Bouillon is not discussed at all, there is a serious problem!
I am quite late to the party here, but finally getting caught up on the 'stacks. I am not as read up on these things or understand them in a way as deeply as many others do, but this is my more simple observation on the matter of Christianity's rise and fall.
To start, I personally do believe in in Christianity, and while I have indeed been struggling to grapple with the common Christian view on immigrants and various non-whites, I still think it is the most correct of any of the major religions.
In my very simplistic view, I believe that Christianity began to see its rise at a macro level due to the "settling" of European nations - as borders solidified and wars stopped being waged all the time (at least on the large bloody scale they once were), the warrior Pagan religion began to fade in strength, regardless of how correct or good one sees it to be. Despite Christianity's origins not being in Europe, I think many of it's core ideas are very complementary to the inherent nature of Whites and are a key reason it saw such wide adoption; forgive others (even enemies), acceptance of new people into your community, and so on.
Many of the issues currently levied against Christianity in the current year were simply not an issue for homogenous countries during it's initial rise, as you did not have foreign people with no relation to the natives attacking and pillaging and flooding in by the millions - more have come to England in ~3 years than the population grew in 200 years, if I recall. That is a change I doubt ANY religion could cope with. If the West broadly was still Pagan, and was seeing the same current decline socially, I believe we would see a similar decline. Why believe in something that does nothing to preserve your way of life?
This I believe has led to what will be the decline of Christianity, at least in it's current form. It grew in Europe in a time of relative peace and collaboration between peoples who were ethnically and culturally similar - in fact in America you can see religion stay nearly constant, only to start dropping in the 70s once the Hart Cellar act begins diversifying the nation. It's current state of "love thy neighbor" just does not work, and I think many Whites can see this, hence the major decline of religion, as you noted. Whatever replaces it, either something new or a new flavor of Christianity, it will need to be able to deal with the current struggles we face, as the current options are just not getting the job done.
wouldn’t following rituals only as the case with shintoism will eventually lead all people to only follow convention not truth.
Also, Zoroastrianism didn’t really have that strong of a sense of institution imo, the religion was sorta isolated in the sense that the temples were kept far away from the general zoroastrian populace and funded and mainly visited by the aristocracy. It’s religious authority also became very centralized under the sassanids so that’s one reason it fell apart so easily later on. Hell when the muslims conquered iran , zoroastrianism was barely alive , there’s a good book that delves into this it’s called “The last empire of iran” by michael bonner .
>wouldn’t following rituals only as the case with shintoism will eventually lead all people to only follow convention not truth.
True, this seems to be what is common in Japan nowadays, but a lot of the trivialization of Shinto had to do with America's anti-Shinto activity after WWII, knocking the Imperial cult down a peg among other things.
>Hell when the muslims conquered iran , zoroastrianism was barely alive , there’s a good book that delves into this it’s called “The last empire of iran” by michael bonner .
I have had discussions with smart people who suggest that Persia got swamped and "diversified" during late antiquity similar to what happened to Rome. Manichaeans, Mandaeans, Jews, and Christians all contributed to the weakening of Zoroastrianism. I think Guenther actually talks about this as well although he insists that it began far earlier.
yes and to add to it similarly there’s been a lot of research going on about pre islamic arabias religious landscape on the eve of the islamic conquests. There’s a new book out recently called “Muhammad and his followers in context- the religious map of late antique arabia” and its really good it basically posits that pagans were a minority in the arabian peninsula and that jews and christians were already a majority by muhammads time
Nvm, it comes from Speer, ITTR page 94. I don’t believe Speer is a particularly reliable source compared to Hitler’s Table Talk because it only records how Hitler talked to Speer. He had more positive things to say to Rosenberg and Himmler and it’s not clear what he actually felt
Ferdism.
Okay time to read the article
3rd option is, unfortunately, already the most common: White Buddhism. Vague spiritualist beliefs, obsession with the minimization of suffering, the same old Christian moral teachings without any commitment to a god.
I think it's very likely that any potential superseder to Christianity will still adopt a lot of its trappings no matter its design; Christianity basically did the same during the development of Nicene orthodoxy itself, meanwhile express paganophilia can be seen with Renaissance stuff and Arthurian legend (these were much later, but you can still probably find other earlier examples), and Christendom (especially early on) had pretty strong reason to avoid doing this. Pagans (afaik) don't necessarily have as strong of an intrinsic reason for diverging, especially since from it sprung a lot of Western culture.
Nothing!
The tragic mistake of believing there will be religion after Christianity that isn’t state enforced negro idolatry
I have turned to Asatru, even though I personally have more Gaelic interests and beliefs. The AFA has multiple hofs in the US. Asatru is a growing religion in certain parts of the West.
I'm of the opinion that we just have to increase folkish ideas in the minds of White people, and once folkism is widespread then we will see a return to natural thought processes. I'm not saying we reconstruct ancient religions - I'm saying we continue those traditions which we still have, and then use those to reignite the racial spirit, so that we can build new systems using what has historically worked for us.
We were ancestor worshipers and panentheist/polytheist for tens of thousands of years. Some Europeans (Lithuanians and some Slavs) weren't even converted until the 14-1600's. It's not like we have totally lost everything. Our ancestors haven't disappeared.
Imperium Press has a great article on folkism right now. Runestone.org and the AFA can provide what people are wanting - pious, community minded, straight laced, family focused, and masculine.
While vague "strains" have been had within Christendom these past few centuries, what we've seen unfold in the past few decades is hardly comparable to anything ever seen before. It's as much of a hasty extrapolation as the idea of Whites becoming extinct by the end of the century or something. If Whites can make a comeback, I think Christianity will too, but the one thing that could subvert that expectation is if our American Caesar/Augustus/Uncle H. ends up being a pagan who paves the way for their takeover (kinda like Constantine)
The American Caesar will be a libtard like Gavin Newsom
Wish I could restack this
Many people made a mistake of seeing Christianity as either divine or Jewish conspiracy because it seems like a perfect system in some way. In actuality, the religious competition was very intense in the first century. With such a crowded scene, people needed to specialize in something and many became preachers, philosophers, and prophets.
As they seeks to gain a slight advantage, there would be many combinations and mixtures of different stuff. Competition accelerate the perfection of a product, whether it be an ideology or a car. Just as a car began as a basic frame with many innovators entering the market with their slight improvements. In time the best elements would be combined and streamlined to be more appealing.
Christianity’s history suggested a similar process as many churches were widely different with only the idea of Christ and salvation being common to all. But the earlier texts implied that Christ began as a spirit or angel who faked death. Some Church Fathers even wrote that Christ died an old man of fifty in Titus’ reign. Some second century bishops outright denied resurrection. Only after the Marcon debate, did Christ gradually became flesh and blood and Old Testament incorporated. He became a historical figure generations later.
In the same way, competition will accelerate the perfection of Paganism as various leaders combined or drop some elements. It most likely will be a bleed of historical pagan rituals, especially ancestors, sacred fire, and nature worship, futurist view of creative strife, Christian elements such as alternative polis (the key to Christian’ success as against the private club of mystery religion), a kind of the Book of Common Prayer and preaching to help forming the common mindset of the group so as to strengthen their unity and mores, the sense of being an elect to inspire their unbreakable spirit, home church-type since the first cults were really a family affair before it grew into a tribe, Catholic style, camp meetings that are not too different from the Dionysian mystery which would provide a large pow-wow before settling on some permanent location, and a crusader spirit that defends the sacred fire and people. Gym will be as important as ritual because the idea that our bodies are sacred carriers of ancestral blood that must be preserved and propagated into the next generation. So the body must be strong and beautiful. Wealth creation and high tech knowledge will be an important part of faith as it would increase the collective strength. Stories and songs are more important than treatises as it must focus on fostering the popular unity and culture.
A couple thoughts
1. Christianity is declining, but a large portion of this is the “abandonment of the middle”. Meaning, most Protestant denoms are in free fall and their congregation is going elsewhere. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and some “hardline” high church prots are collecting most, but not all, of these crumbs. I go to an American Orthodox Church, it and many others are experiencing nuclear explosions of new converts. Its an entirely convert church, far more zealous than modern American Protestantism. My church specifically is an abandoned baptist country chapel that’s been converted. Designed to “seat” 100ish, it now “stands” 300+ weekly (Orthos stand for the Liturgy). Many, many other Ortho parishes are experiencing similar growth, especially post Covid. We will see if this is a sustained, national trend but I’ve seen Ortho priests discuss on YouTube that anecdotally the OCA is basically past capacity YoY.
Still, this might mean 2% of the American population becomes Orthodox at best. Not very important, especially considering it’s ethnic/migrant aftertaste in the US. Either way, its over for Protestants. By about 2200, Protestantism will be extinct. America will join probably join today’s England as a majority catholic country.
2. Church attendance has always been low, even in medieval Europe. It’s counterintuitive, but church attendance / weekly participation isn’t the best way to gauge whether someone is a nominal or “true” Christian. Especially in historical Protestant nations (Scandinavia), the practicing rate has hovered around 5%. There’s a theory that the 30 years war was really the first time the lower classes ever cared about what made them a Catholic instead of a prot and Vice versa
I'm pretty sure Catholic church attendance has been falling faster than Protestantism in the U.S., albeit Protestantism is taking in a lot of brown mexican ex-catholic evangelicals to replace a potentially freefalling white population. In Europe, however, Protestantism really is on its last legs. Protestant "churches" like those in Scandinavia and England are a total joke and nobody even regularly attends them.
>Church attendance has always been low, even in medieval Europe. It’s counterintuitive, but church attendance / weekly participation isn’t the best way to gauge whether someone is a nominal or “true” Christian. Especially in historical Protestant nations (Scandinavia), the practicing rate has hovered around 5%. There’s a theory that the 30 years war was really the first time the lower classes ever cared about what made them a Catholic instead of a prot and Vice versa
I would be interested in hearing more about this
I’m paraphrasing from several books by Dr Rodney Stark, where he directly discusses the decline in the Christian population in Europe / the West. Drops lots of figures and quotes about how, say, an English peasant in the 1200s rarely attended mass and often slept in the pews, showed up drunk, left early, etc. I’ll see if I can find the specific book and chapter Bc he sort of destroys the notion of the “pious Christian medieval population”.
Catholicism either falls slower than Protestantism or makes small YoY gains depending on the year, Covid could also just be an outlier.
Orthodox and catholic converts aren’t Christian so we can rule those out of any statistics. Mexicans who watch king Baldwin edits on tiktok are not Christian.
When Baldwin is an icon of Christian youth (mostly because of some hollywood movie) and Godfrey of Bouillon is not discussed at all, there is a serious problem!
If Robert Guiscard was a household name we’d have more gigachads who like like dolph lundgren
Erm WTD
I am quite late to the party here, but finally getting caught up on the 'stacks. I am not as read up on these things or understand them in a way as deeply as many others do, but this is my more simple observation on the matter of Christianity's rise and fall.
To start, I personally do believe in in Christianity, and while I have indeed been struggling to grapple with the common Christian view on immigrants and various non-whites, I still think it is the most correct of any of the major religions.
In my very simplistic view, I believe that Christianity began to see its rise at a macro level due to the "settling" of European nations - as borders solidified and wars stopped being waged all the time (at least on the large bloody scale they once were), the warrior Pagan religion began to fade in strength, regardless of how correct or good one sees it to be. Despite Christianity's origins not being in Europe, I think many of it's core ideas are very complementary to the inherent nature of Whites and are a key reason it saw such wide adoption; forgive others (even enemies), acceptance of new people into your community, and so on.
Many of the issues currently levied against Christianity in the current year were simply not an issue for homogenous countries during it's initial rise, as you did not have foreign people with no relation to the natives attacking and pillaging and flooding in by the millions - more have come to England in ~3 years than the population grew in 200 years, if I recall. That is a change I doubt ANY religion could cope with. If the West broadly was still Pagan, and was seeing the same current decline socially, I believe we would see a similar decline. Why believe in something that does nothing to preserve your way of life?
This I believe has led to what will be the decline of Christianity, at least in it's current form. It grew in Europe in a time of relative peace and collaboration between peoples who were ethnically and culturally similar - in fact in America you can see religion stay nearly constant, only to start dropping in the 70s once the Hart Cellar act begins diversifying the nation. It's current state of "love thy neighbor" just does not work, and I think many Whites can see this, hence the major decline of religion, as you noted. Whatever replaces it, either something new or a new flavor of Christianity, it will need to be able to deal with the current struggles we face, as the current options are just not getting the job done.
wouldn’t following rituals only as the case with shintoism will eventually lead all people to only follow convention not truth.
Also, Zoroastrianism didn’t really have that strong of a sense of institution imo, the religion was sorta isolated in the sense that the temples were kept far away from the general zoroastrian populace and funded and mainly visited by the aristocracy. It’s religious authority also became very centralized under the sassanids so that’s one reason it fell apart so easily later on. Hell when the muslims conquered iran , zoroastrianism was barely alive , there’s a good book that delves into this it’s called “The last empire of iran” by michael bonner .
>wouldn’t following rituals only as the case with shintoism will eventually lead all people to only follow convention not truth.
True, this seems to be what is common in Japan nowadays, but a lot of the trivialization of Shinto had to do with America's anti-Shinto activity after WWII, knocking the Imperial cult down a peg among other things.
>Hell when the muslims conquered iran , zoroastrianism was barely alive , there’s a good book that delves into this it’s called “The last empire of iran” by michael bonner .
I have had discussions with smart people who suggest that Persia got swamped and "diversified" during late antiquity similar to what happened to Rome. Manichaeans, Mandaeans, Jews, and Christians all contributed to the weakening of Zoroastrianism. I think Guenther actually talks about this as well although he insists that it began far earlier.
yes and to add to it similarly there’s been a lot of research going on about pre islamic arabias religious landscape on the eve of the islamic conquests. There’s a new book out recently called “Muhammad and his followers in context- the religious map of late antique arabia” and its really good it basically posits that pagans were a minority in the arabian peninsula and that jews and christians were already a majority by muhammads time
Erm maybe give redpilled atheism a try…
Hitler didn't want to be worshipped as a god, he said so himself in le Table Talks
Nvm, it comes from Speer, ITTR page 94. I don’t believe Speer is a particularly reliable source compared to Hitler’s Table Talk because it only records how Hitler talked to Speer. He had more positive things to say to Rosenberg and Himmler and it’s not clear what he actually felt